Curse

fallot · Aug 10, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

He probably wasn't aware of the flame trap spikes being used.

Pretty sure I say them being used in Farming Rangers of Ascalon vs. Bladed Aatxe Adventurers of the Underworld.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Ah so thats why he never gets anything right... he makes up his mind based on what a few people tell him on that wiki.

pretty much...

I did bring it up several times though, each time the traps were buffed, within the official threads started by anet employees (yeah they were buffed like 4 times and could wipe elite areas even before then o.O)

Vermilion · Aug 10, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I recommend posting ideas on Izzy's talk page on the official wiki. He probably wasn't aware of the flame trap spikes being used.

Man, what this game really needs are shadowsteps where you move opposing players. 321 flametrap! (?)

manitoba1073 · Aug 10, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I don't believe any mission, elite or normal, has ever been intended to force a reliance on a single skill aside from special mission skills required to complete tasks. If there was such a reliance, I would be so bold as to say that skill was being used as a crutch in some parts of PvE just as much as it was in PvP.

Any time one skill being changed makes an entire strategy fail on a mission, or in PvP, or anywhere, I take that as hard evidence that some players were far too reliant on that one skill, and 9 times out of 10, that reliance is based on that skill being overpowered. Overpowered skills are overpowered in PvE just as much as they are in PvP, the only difference is monsters don't have forum accounts to post about it.

So skills are over powered in PvE just cause they seem to be in PvP? WoW just really WoW. Spikes are easy to interrupt and never had a problem with stopping them in PvP. Let me introduce you a Dev with one of your own skills and please feel more than ok to share with the rest of the PvP community since they seem to have completely missed it.

Choking Gas

I dont know maybe I misread the description on it. You guys tell me what it says.

Oh yeah I also forgot to mention since skills are so balanced why not change the mob you must beat to get into HA. You know the standard HM group styled mobs of 10-15 baddies since the skills are obvisouly so balanced now.

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Edge

Attacking communer has been killed.

Good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Add exhaustion to Shelter and Recuperation too? You think thats an improvement?

Absolutely. I would *love* for Recuperation to be a 10 energy spirit that caused exhaustion - that change would pull Recuperation off of the marginal skill list and make in a cornerstone of the Restoration Ritualist. You suffer from exhaustion when you put it down? Who cares? I'm not putting it down more than every 30 seconds anyway, exhaustion doesn't build up, and I have more energy to play with because of the difference in cost. If for whatever reason I am putting it down twice a minute I'm spending 20 energy instead of 50, at the cost of my energy cap fluctuating a bit (not that you'd be near that cap after dropping a 25 energy spirit in the first place). 10e, exhaustion Recuperation is almost strictly better than 25e Recuperation for a Restoration Ritualist. Shelter? Same deal. You free up a ton of energy from putting this thing down and get to invest it in your other skills.

The entire reason those spirits needed to be hammered so hard in the past was because of the awful, passive spirit pooper templates that were infecting high level play. The ridiculous energy costs weakened that build enough to make it uncompetitive, but in the process made the spirits completely unplayable outside of a dedicated spirit build and all the infrastructure that comes with it. Putting exhaustion on those spirits breaks up those horrid poopers even harder, but also allows those spirits to exist at a power level that makes them playable on a more robust template. The addition of the mechanic is going to turn into a huge buff to the profession across the board, if it gets implemented as thoroughly as it should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Maybe if spirit spamming wants to be made tighter, Binding Rituals can cause a life sac?

That actually has the opposite effect that exhaustion does - it makes the spirits pretty much worthless in non-pooper builds, but has very little effect on the poopers themselves. Between Boon of Creation and natural regeneration (since you're never attacking anyone) the health loss is completely inconsequential unless you're getting trained, and if that's the case you can't exactly stop and put down spirits anyway. You want spirits to be good on more flexible builds, not constrained to '5-6 spirits plus Boon of Creation' and other such garbage.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 10, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Rit spike certainly did need a nerf, but the exhaustion on a lot of the skills just makes them utterly worthless, especially on a class that tends to hold ashpots leading to low max energy. When your max energy is 30 or so, even one exhaustion skill is devastating.

Wielder's strike does 126 damage on a 12 second recharge with exhaustion, and a conditional. I have no idea why anyone would use this skill anywhere, ever, now. Maybe instead of exhaustion, make it touch range?

On the binding rituals, it forces you to bring only one of dissonance, wanderlust, anguish, or disenchantment.

Anguish is barely better than pain. I have no idea why anyone would use this now, if you have exhaustion, might as well take a spirit that's a little more interesting.

For the rest, why is a 5 second cast time ok for these, but bad for ranger spirits? Disenchantment was previously the only skill with real use here, as it stayed up almost full time. Now, meh, I guess one is ok if I'm running offensive spirits, not particularly attractive though.

Xinrae's weapon, defiant was Xinrae - Crappy enough to never use them before exhaustion, crappy enough that no one will bother now. Anyway, casting the ashpot spell will have such a drastic effect on your max energy (takes away item bonus and -10 on top of that) that you can't cast this more than once or twice without completely screwing yourself over. For both, make them relatively cheap and spammable, but reduce the skill disabling to something like 4...12 seconds? Maybe 15/1/10 for weapon, 5/1/10 for the ashpot.

Ancestor's rage - It's not worth the price now, but not quite as violently terrible as wielder's strike. I'd rather the skill be balanced than broken, but meh. How about "For 8 seconds, target ally is enchanted with ancestor's rage. The enxt time that ally takes damage, all adjacent foes are struck for 30...110 damage.

Sight Beyond Sight - Who cares?

Splinter weapon - Perfect IMO. No idea why it wasn't always like this.

Spirit Burn - It was never strong for DPS. Fireball, for instance, has a 7 second recharge, does unconditional damage, and has an AoE. Maybe change this into a 5 energy immolate? 5/1/3, target foe is struck for 15...51 damage. If you are withing earshot of a spirit that foe is also set on fire for 1...3 seconds"

Off of rits, between glyph of elemental power and the RI buff, eles are looking to be the new spike gimmick.

Also, hooray for the sin balances.

EDIT: For Communing spirits, what really needs to be done is to add an active dynamic to this. Soul twisting, signet of binding, signet of creation, signet of ghostly might are all interesting dynamics requiring some degree of skill to use. Perhaps tweaking spirit life lower and forcing players to manage spirit health more might be a better use for those skills.

As a side note, I'm going to go do nightmare weapon spike just to piss off people who hate seeing rits.

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Absolutely. I would *love* for Recuperation to be a 10 energy spirit that caused exhaustion - that change would pull Recuperation off of the marginal skill list and make in a cornerstone of the Restoration Ritualist. You suffer from exhaustion when you put it down? Who cares? I'm not putting it down more than every 30 seconds anyway, exhaustion doesn't build up, and I have more energy to play with because of the difference in cost. If for whatever reason I am putting it down twice a minute I'm spending 20 energy instead of 50, at the cost of my energy cap fluctuating a bit (not that you'd be near that cap after dropping a 25 energy spirit in the first place). 10e, exhaustion Recuperation is almost strictly better than 25e Recuperation for a Restoration Ritualist. Shelter? Same deal. You free up a ton of energy from putting this thing down and get to invest it in your other skills.

Ok maybe its an improvement with Recuperation and Shelter been as you'll only have the 1 in any build that uses them... ie a Resto Rit w/ Recup and Life and a Defensive Rit w/ Shelter, Displacement and Union. But with Wanderlust, Dissonance, Disenchantment and Anguish, are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing kidding me? 4 skills that will quite commonly appear in the same build are now completely worthless. I can take 1 of them... or i just screw myself over with exhaustion. The energy costs needed lowering anyway... tacking exhaustion onto them wasn't even remotely helpful... now it just means nobody will use them, or you'll end up with 4 Rits taking 1 each. And as Dr Strangelove said... Anguish is shit anyway. Plus the other 2 have a crap duration.

Pae · Aug 10, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

That's a lot of pretty significant changes o.o. I like how some of it looks for PvE, with Echo, Arcane Echo, Death's Charge, and Reckless Haste (despite decreased duration). For Aegis, I don't remember ever seeing it used in The Deep, even in HM. It'll be really tough for Urgoz's Warren and DoA, though. If you're lucky enough to have a well-coordinated party move at the same time, I guess that it works. There's so much to comment on, but there's already enough to read through as it is >_>.

=HT=Ingram · Aug 10, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

I'm all for nerfs to PvP all you want , as long as there is hope on the horizon for PvE. With the coming PvE skills in the expansion I hope this to be true. that there will be some PvE only skills that we will be able to get that will not be adversely effected by the countless PvP buffs or nerfs that happen because of complainers or exploiters of skills.

The thing I am a little disappointed on is the favor bit. Now I see why, but lets face it a lot of us have maxed out titles on what we wanted to have maxed out already. I did my titles on 1 character my ranger to the fullest how I wanted them to be, for Hall of monuments. I have 0 desire or ambition to max out titles on the 11 other characters at all, as all that goes to promote is GRIND.

I look at it this way now. if I get a passage scroll in HM great. I save it for a large group party into whatever regardless of favor. If I don't I just consider them non existent and play on as normal. so the way I see the elite missions now is a bonus for finding a good passage scroll. So be it... But this title nonsense. whatever...

What happens when GW2 comes out and the numbers of people playing GW drops by 1/2 overnight? So America has favor for 1 hour and times up. no one getting titles anymore, so now what? we have to wait till someone get one till someone has favor again? naw. better off getting rid of favor entirely and just have it based on passage scrolls.

Just have some kind of passage scroll vendor at a end of game NPC to control outrageous price levels that will happen cause of this... I saw those passage scrolls jump from 10k a piece to now 45k in ToA... That needs nipped in the bud ASAP.

My suggestion: passage scroll vendor in Divine Path, Throne of Secrets or Chantry of Secrets (inside the gated area), And Ember Light Camp right beside Dakk(all prophecies Non-elite skills).

I would also humbly suggest that you could add these vendors inside the town with controlled areas like in factions. So controlling a town adds the benefit that they can also buy passage scrolls earlier then end of game. Would really like them to be offered for Guild Hall service, but somehow I am betting that will NEVER happen... I dont think we will ever see anything new on that, so Just forget that part...

Just some thoughts on this... So far it does not seem to matter either way. but once GW2 comes out I think it will make a difference for everyone if this system is still in place.

Oh BTW this pretty much guarantees a lot of people currently playing Heroes Ascent just to control favor will go on to doing something else. I think this may have hurt HA more then you realize... Cause I know several guilds that play it for the sole purpose of maintaiing favor so they can farm ecto. lol Whoppty do as far as I am concerned on HA, but I know that is exactly the opposite of what you wanted to do in that area of the game.

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 10, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Shelter? Same deal. You free up a ton of energy from putting this thing down and get to invest it in your other skills.

Yeah, a Rit definitely has the energy to put down Shelter and constantly Soul Twist it in Hard Mode.

Hollow Gein · Aug 10, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I'm very relieved that the Necro nerfs weren't that severe. A shame on Reckless Haste though but one i can live with. The small buff to mesmers skills will help both my necro and mesmer

Dr Strangelove · Aug 10, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

Yeah, a Rit definitely has the energy to put down Shelter and constantly Soul Twist it in Hard Mode.

I thought this was sarcastic, but then I realized you've seen me play that build

. The key to that working is working signet of binding, vital weapon, a boon of creation, and signet of creation so you don't have to spam the thing. Almost all the communing spirits are totally worthless to try and spam without a BiP on your back, the key is managing the things.

EPO Bot · Aug 10, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

"I love the power glyph.It's so bad."

Prof Of Black · Aug 10, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Wow, ectos 7k, shards 3k o.O

And haha, rits got p00wned.

~Prof.

Patrick Smit · Aug 10, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It goes like similiar to heal party take THK mission for eg. when some are off your aggro it will no longer be usefull to help keep them protect and some other mission as well where Monks stand back.This is skill is now useless in pve now and might as well as rip it out of Lina and the rest of the henchies protect monks as when you flag them.I would of changed it to devine favour instead so all those Eles chaining couldn't anymore.

I would highly advise to change it back and remember pve maps are bigger than pvp maps.Monks now have to go up to aggro range of the mobs and get targeted now as a result of this.You still haven't addressed the fact that hexs as they are over powered.Player change targets in pvp but not in the mobs in pve if you are with in aggro range.Besides that pvers have been using aegis a lot longer than pvpers.

I don't know what u are talking about, you normally just join in the aggro, but on the backline, if they come at you, you kite. If you are not in aggro as a monk, you can't heal instantly/fast when it is needed because you need to move up first. How does that strategy make sense? This can only work if u use large range skills like aegis, lod, heal party and such, which are crap skills anyway for PvE, except for maybe a mission or two. Lod is basically ok, but there are really some better skills out there.

Have read quite some complaints about splinter weapon, I really wonder why, it still lasts 20 seconds, and recharge is still 5. If u cant fire 4-5 shots in that time type: /resign. I could even do that on a monk.

Up to now, lots of complaints from the PvE, which to my opinion are not really well founded/argumented.

Quote:

Oh BTW this pretty much guarantees a lot of people currently playing Heroes Ascent just to control favor will go on to doing something else. I think this may have hurt HA more then you realize... Cause I know several guilds that play it for the sole purpose of maintaiing favor so they can farm ecto. lol Whoppty do as far as I am concerned on HA, but I know that is exactly the opposite of what you wanted to do in that area of the game.

I don't see that making sense. If Europe is awake you really don't need to participate in HA because you will get favor anyway when people are playing (usually in the evening). When u PvP you really don't care that much for farming ectos. But hey, maybe I'm totally wrong.

Cebe · Aug 10, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

double "w00t!" for Glyph of Elemental Power

"w00t!" for Blurred Vision

"w00t!" for Aegis

"w00t!" for Signet of Illusions

Too bad about PvP making them add Exhaustion to Rits in PvE. That being said, spirit spamming offensively in PvE is not dead. Summon Spirits is there for a reason and so long as the spirits are placed sensibly on the battlefield they wont all just die...giving the caster the time to recover from the exhaustion. Ancestor's Rage was one of my favourite spells...oh well...maybe this is an "incentive" to look into Clamour of Souls? LOL.

manitoba1073 · Aug 10, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

As a side note, I'm going to go do nightmare weapon spike just to piss off people who hate seeing rits.

Dont you dare I dont need my other PoP skill nerfed. OBTW use dual shot and iginte arrows with nightmre weapon. you will wet yourself.

Thats the basics of my PoP build splinter/barrage ignite arrows dual shot nightmare weapon choking gas. Makes you wonder why I never had a problem with any caster spike teams lol.
i might as well add what PoP means lol Piss off PvPers. gotta love that build.

Sea Edge · Aug 10, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

meh.

twelve characters.

=HT=Ingram · Aug 10, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

PvE could really care less on most skills... It evolves almost daily... Any number of builds are happening. the complaints I have heard on the PvE side is more getting used to something new. which I am always happy about, and also waiting to see what PvE only skills will do to our builds in the expansion. Which is also a very good thing. about time we get some skills that the PvP exploit mongers will not get their grubby Nerf bats out for.

The Favor thing is the only thing I think will do thins in game that Anet is not expecting... It triples up the requirement of grind, which many players will just not do again... And It removes incentive to play HA at all for many players. there is no need to be in there at all now unless you absolutely love PvP. which may be the point after all.

The only thing I see the current favor thing doing that will be bad over all for some, is it will force the inflation market to skyrocket and give the Bot farmers something new to go after with passage scrolls. Unless they add some end game vendors for them someplace, to control the outrageous price increases early... That is what the bot farmers will switch too for selling off so they can sell gold again... nerf one thing Get a new problem.. thats not too uncommon... Just needs something done about it Quickly to prevent it from becoming a problem.

yesitsrob · Aug 10, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

people didn't play HA to earn favor, they played HA to make glowing animals fly out of them